BNLS-Werkspoor - LNER 6000 Tommy van MSL Hobbies en MK modelbouw

[Kees de Rooij]

Leuke vraag over die verwarmingsketel. Die Britten lieten toch ook een stoker meerijden ? Maar niet om te stoken: op deze website staat dat de ketels elektrisch waren: http://www.lner.info/locos/Electric/em1.shtml

[Ivo tB]

@Ruud,

Ik snap je manier van afplakken nu nog beter. Zou moeten kunnen werken.

@Kees,

Zeker elektrisch gestookt. Dat wist ik wel, hoewel het argument voor de stoker natuurlijk heel sterk is  . Maar ook een elektrisch gestookte ketel zal toch stoom moeten afblazen. Ik heb ergens een foto met die suggestie. Zal ik eens opzoeken.

mvg,
Ivo

[Tommy]

You're not too late at all. Thanks for the info.  This was still a part that was missing. And my model isn't finished yet. The most important question is how the black and white lining can be made the best way.
Now that you mention there is another question. A steam kettle is installed too in this loco for heating of the train. Does this kettle have some type of exhaust somewhere?

mvg,
Ivo

Hi Ivo

The lining I did on mine with Humbrol enamels.  I used a Bob Moore lining pen which is really easy to use.  You also need to line the bogies out in red.  You'll see that on my picture.  My Tommy is a scratchbuild, not an MSL kit.  Although you can see I lined the middle riveted strip, this was a mistake.  It should be unlined between the LN & ER and 67 & 01

http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/cherry-paints/lining-and-masking/bob-moore-pens.html

The green I used is Precision Paints Doncaster green from the same website.

You will also need the LNER "eye" - see the doors on my model.  This can be found here:

http://fox-transfers.co.uk/pre-nationalisation-road-vehicle-sets-62847

All other decals are HMRS Pressfix.

One other thing to consider are the pantographs.  The MSL ones are awful - you've got yours on upside down by the way.  I used Judith Edge pantographs which are superb.  They are an etched kit.  Mike is a lovely bloke and will probably do you a set for HO if you ask nicely.  I can post his details if you wish.



As for the steam outlet - Tommy didn't have a boiler.  Only the last few production EM1s and the EM2 machines had boilers.  You can see the boiler removal panel on a boiler filled machine.

Hope this helps.  Anything else, please ask.  I'll check in occasionally.  Also, feel free to ask about the EM2.  Ariadne (1505) is just up the road from me in Manchester.  I'll happily take a trip to take specific photographs if anyone wants them for modelling.

Alastair

[Tommy]

HMRS White lining decals here.  These might be an option?

http://www.petersspares.com/hmrs-103p-oo-scale-white-general-purpose-lining-pressfix-transfer-sheet.ir

[Ivo tB]

Hello Alastair,

Thanks for all tips. I have a Bob Moore lining pen, but I expected the lining to be still too thick. Yours look fine to me. Beautiful model by the way, I didn't realise it was scratch built. The red lining on the bogies is new to me, but will be applied now that I know this. I already have the pressfix tranfers too and a tin of Doncaster green
I thought I had read in dutch literature about Tommy that it had a boiler installed, but apparently there wasn't any.

I only wonder what you mean with the pantographs being upside down. I don't use the MSL versions, although they can be seen on my pictures. I'm using etched pantographs made by MK modelbouw. In my opinion the wire that I have used for the upper parts need to be replaced by thinner wire. You can see the thick version in my pictures when they are still in unpainted brass. The Judith Edge pantographs look even more fine scale than mine, so I'll think about your suggestion for contacting Mike.

regards,
Ivo

[Tommy]

Hi Ivo

I can only see pictures of a pantograph base on your photos.  That is upside down.  Compare to:


The Judith Edge pans use 0.45mm nickel silver wire if that helps.  It would be good to see pictures of your MK ones.  The Judith Edge kits looks like:


Alastair

[Ivo tB]

Hello Alastair,

I see what you mean with upside down. I guess I can change that easily. I hadn't noticed this before. You can see the MK pantographs being built up in pictures from this post http://forum.beneluxspoor.net/index.php/topic,16839.msg273543.html#msg273543 on page 4 of this thread onward. You'll also see the etchings of msl, but they are in nickel silver but the MK ones are etched brass.

I can also see why it could be worth while to ask to make an H0 etch from the 00 example you showed. It looks really very detailed to me.

regards,
Ivo

[Tommy]

Hi Ivo

Have you considered our discussion is a bit like Tommy himself, Anglo Dutch collaboration 

Your pantograph had some good points although brass is a bit soft.  I'd try changing the wire for the upper to thinner nickel silver which is much stronger.

The pantograph head on yours is correct as an original Metrovick head.  The Mike Edge head is a British Rail 1970 head. However, the pivot point underneath is far too bigon yours.  I'd try to make a smaller one like this:

When folded the pantograph should be really flat:


This can be seen here where the pantograph does not go above the top of the middle section:


To assist in getting to this point I'd also make the pantograph mounts smaller like:


I use Evergreen 263 2.5mm channel.

If we return to the real thing, you'll notice that the pantograph mounts are not a solid channel but 2 mounts joined by a bar.  I ignore this for the model but you might feel differently.


Finally, I mentioned that the bogies were lined.  You can see this here.


However on becoming 6000, the lining appears to have disappeared!


So I reckon without lining is correct for Dutch operation.  It does look better lined though 

Hope you don't think I'm being too critical, but I reckon you're keen to get it right.

Alastair

[Ivo tB]

Hello Alastair,

Thanks for the additional pictures. They are also helpful in having a closer look at the brake gear, which runs on the outside under the bogie, like it does on the EM2.

I have 2 additional questions. I did find the picture with Tommy letting of steam. The picture is part of an article in a dutch magazine from 1993. It clearly shows. In the magazine there is a description of the boiler and the fact that there even was an additional water tank installed in the Netherlands. The pictures you posted of the roof and the insulators with the high voltage switches also shows something that could be a high pressure valve connected to the steam boiler. If you take a look at Tommy being operated it can be clearly seen that Tommy has never used an additional wagon with a steam boiler for the heating of the train, where all other electrical engines use these additional wagons during winter time. Now I'm not sure if these pictures of yours are from an EM1 or from Tommy. I can try to make a scan from the picture in the article, but I'm afraid nothing will show.

There's another question. On the front there are oval factory plates, I suppose in brass or bronze. It is a flat plate wit engraved letter. In the middle it clearly says Doncaster and along the upper oval edge it says London North Eastern and along the lower oval edge is says railway (I think without an s). Above and below Doncaster there seem to be numbers, which I can't decipher. The lower one can be 1941 (year of construction) and the upper shall be a factory number.

Would you by any chance have more information on this plate. I plan to have it etched, I just need to be sure what's on it. The letter will be extremely small, but there is a producer who can really reproduce this.


regards,
Ivo

[Tommy]

Hi Ivo

Hmm on the boiler.  I'll do more digging....

On the plate.  If you got some made, I'll have some 4mm ones too please.

Alastair

[Tommy]

You're right.  The grey hose on the buffer is the steam hose and the panel on the side to the right of the number is the steam boiler access hatch.

Dig more I will

[Tommy]

Going one better.  This was sitting right in front of my nose!

[Ivo tB]

I liked the first one, but I this one is even better. I'll see what I can do to get a 4mm set. It may take some time.

regards,
Ivo